Learnings From a Productized Service

Recently, Liston concieved, designed, implemented, and shut down a productized service in about 2 months time. During that time, he sold 2 clients on the service, and created+shipped a website, outbound email sequence, and sales deck for the service.

The biggest asset he built might have been what he learned about designing and implementing a productized services. He shares the main takeaways in today's episode.

Links: The sales deck for Liston's productized services: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SlSmwGrs7-6aweMjBunBCdipbcOVv-MLswuYuVguJ5s/edit?usp=sharing

Full Transcript


This transcript was made by robots, so it's far from perfect.

Liston Witherill
Welcome to offline, a podcast about building a 100% online and remote expertise driven business without the bullshit, posted remotely by me, Liston Witherill. And me,

Philip Morgan
Philip Morgan. You'll learn how we're building our businesses, what scares the shit out of it, and hear from our friends and experts who are building their own businesses today. Welcome to offline. Hey, Liston.

Liston Witherill
Hey, Philip, our you,

Philip Morgan
I think you should start the podcast there. I'm good. How are you? My man looking at about a foot of snow out the window here in Taos, New Mexico.

Liston Witherill
so different than here, although it's gotten dramatically cold, like in the last week, it was, this is nothing for you. I know. But it was 35. This morning, when my wife took the dog for a walk.

Philip Morgan
I'm chilly. All is a wildfire smoke pretty much gone.

Liston Witherill
It is gone. I I kept this app installed on my phone that gives like a daily air quality score. So it's still kind of oscillates between like zero and 50, which tells me there's some smoke somewhere within the state. But yeah, it's it's fine. I mean, there's there's no reason to stay indoors anymore.

Philip Morgan
I now have a shortcut in my browser bar to a one of the better smoke maps, that gives you an overlay over google maps of the intensity of wildfire smoke. And it's really interesting to be here. Actually, there was a point at which most of the United States was covered in at least a light level of smoke. That like the smoke plume was it didn't cover the entire United States, the entire continental United States, but it was equal in size to the entire United States. And it was like, Wow, that's a lot of wildfire smoke.

Liston Witherill
Well, I don't know if you caught any of the images from space. But for you, and for the dear listeners listening to this now, it's pretty interesting to see just how much area of Earth was covered by the smoke. Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

Philip Morgan
Yeah, you wouldn't think that few 10,000 acres of fire could do that. But they certainly can.

Liston Witherill
It's all connected. Indeed. So today, we're gonna have a slightly different episode, I think, where we're not just gonna talk about our feelings or opinions about things. I think I have kind of a factual breakdown of something that I did recently. So how do you want to start this

Philip Morgan
is this is a breakup story, you pulled the plug on something recently. But start there, and then talk about what you learned.

Liston Witherill
So I started a productized service, I wanted to try out this idea where I would help people get on to podcasts. And the idea was, I have two target customers. One is the owner of a services firm that's relatively undifferentiated, and is looking to start to establish their authority in the market, or underpin and sort of underlying their authority. The second was authors, right people who recently published a book, and there's a lot of crossover between these two groups. But ideally, authors who also make money from speaking fees, and from training, because to them, a single client is worth a lot of money. And so going into this, I knew I didn't want,

Unknown Speaker
you know,

Liston Witherill
the yoga instructor or anyone else trying to reach a large consumer audience, because it's the value proposition isn't as strong to them. And also, the number of valuable podcasts for them to get on is very small. Whereas the group that I was focused on, I felt, they don't need to be on large shows. And they don't need to have a huge audience for this to really matter in terms of their bottom line. So that was kind of the setup. This sounds like a red ocean, a very commoditized business. I have a podcast called the consulting pipeline podcast, it's not updated very often. I do, don't worry.

Philip Morgan
I know it competes with this one. So just joking about that. I get pitches. I get a lot of pitches sometimes. Yeah. This is a commoditized. area. Why a business in a commoditized? Here? Yeah,

Liston Witherill
great question. So I've been I'd thought for years, that this is something I could easily do. And the reason is I you know, I run this podcast and we don't get guest pitches for this really. And I think it's because our I don't know if we have an email listed that neither of us check or get I'm not sure but On my other podcasts, even one that I hardly published to consulting growth, I get pitches multiple times a week. And most of them just go straight to spam because I use sanebox. And so I don't see most of those. But I mean, I get a pitch like, pretty much every day for a guest. Okay, well,

Philip Morgan
we can just go ahead and name the elephant in the room. Its name is Philip. Seems like I'm the problem here. You get pitches on your other podcasts. But on this podcast, you don't do the math?

Liston Witherill
No. Well, so if people do their research at all, they would see that we don't have many guests that may have something to do with it.

Philip Morgan
No, no, trust me. That's not it. They don't do their research. Listen. Yeah,

Liston Witherill
I agree.

Unknown Speaker
Right. I agree.

Philip Morgan
Are we getting so be what was different about your services that you would do research?

Liston Witherill
You? So you said this is a red ocean? Right? Yeah, to commoditize space. And the reason I thought there's an opportunity here, and I still think there's a real opportunity is that most of the providers are terrible at their job. Yeah. meaning they're sending, just like kind of also ran approach, right? Like, Hey, I have a guest who would be perfect for your show. It's inevitably always the same email. It's like, Hey, Liston, huge fan of modern sales podcast. And I'm always like, No, you're not. Right. Like, don't don't start this out by lying to me. Right. So huge fan of your show. Because you talk about XYZ, I have the perfect guest

Philip Morgan
for you. Oh, you skip the line. Love the episode about and just what is whatever the most recent episode was? Right? Right.

Liston Witherill
Yeah. So it's always the same? Yeah. And then they just like, you know, seamlessly transition into the self serving, like, I have the perfect guest. And then like, they paste in the same three paragraphs. Yeah. Which of course, I'm never going to read. Yeah. And I've gotten so many of these, I was like, there's an opportunity to do this much better. And there's an opportunity to differentiate to the client, but also to the podcaster community, and say, we're better than that, right, we have a different approach. And it's, it's going to be better. Yeah. And the only way to do that is to take a slightly more labor intensive approach to the prospecting and the outreach. And so all along, I consider this as like the key differentiator has to be better outreach, right? Because that'll help us get clients. But that'll also help the clients get interviews on podcasts, right. And so it sort of serves both sides of the business. And so this is something I thought about for a while, but I didn't, I'm always reluctant to do really executional, heavy, repetitive tasks kind of businesses, because I get bored too fast.

Philip Morgan
That brings up the next question. So if you're going to do more, let's say just more labor intensive outreach, you're going to do it better. Like how do you make it profitable with that tweak to how you do things.

Liston Witherill
So we're going to have a formula versus frameworks topic that we're going to cover eventually on offline. And so I think this dovetails nicely. So I don't want to get into the details of that, but basically have a formula. Right? What I find, let's take a step back for outreach. In general, what I find a lot of people get wrong about outreach is the angle that they want, that you use in order to get the person's attention should be baked into how you find them. Okay. So I can give you lots of examples about that. But for me, like when I reach out to people, or actually, you know, someone that I work with, when she reaches out for me to be on their podcast, it's always the same. It's like, Hey, we're reaching out because you have a sales podcast that has recently covered topics, A, B, and C. Are you looking for guests right now? Right? And so they can immediately see that we did our homework, they can immediately see this message is different. They can immediately see we're not just like quoting the title of the most recent episode, there's more thought that went into it. But it's really an additional two to five minutes of work, right? It's not it's not go spend two hours on on each prospect.

Philip Morgan
Got it. Okay. So it's it's a relatively low cost way to get a sort of outsized impact from the outreach.

Liston Witherill
That's right. I mean, and there's lots of examples of this, right. So like, if you were providing, gosh, there's so many different ways we could tackle this, but I think one of the obvious things is if you're providing like a marketing services related to HubSpot. Right? Your prospecting strategy could be defined websites between X and Y alexa rank, who have the HubSpot code installed for over 12 months. Right, right. And you could say, that's probably someone who's starting to make a mess of HubSpot or maybe starting to neglect it. And I could bake that into my prospecting. Hey, I'm reaching out because I see you have HubSpot installed. A lot of our clients find they just get HubSpot fatigue after 12 months. And so I have three ways of you know, making better use of HubSpot without hiring a new person to manage it for you let me know if you're interested, right, something like that, like my my prospecting angle, and why they might want to want to talk to me. They're the same thing. Right? They're baked in together. And so that was that was kind of the idea of how can we make this outreach better. But it also needed to scale that was kind of one of the things I wrote down initially, to your point is like, how do you make that profitable? I wrote down if this can't scale, I can't do it. Like every choice needs to be around scale. Yeah. And we're gonna come back to that theme. Alrighty.

Philip Morgan
So this was the idea. I'll go ahead and ask this question. Were you bored? Why did you do this? Dude, were you like, it was the other business not doing it for you, like what led to thinking about adding a second business,

Liston Witherill
I thought it would be good to give it a try. I thought I had the right resources in place to help with it. And I thought it was something where I could build a system and then just hand it off really quickly.

Philip Morgan
And that was where I was wrong. Okay, but sort of like, Oh, this is an opportunity. I've got some things in place that not everybody else would have. Let me, you know, stitch those together into a machine that does this outreach and make some money.

Liston Witherill
That Yeah, and like I have the expertise to, like, make the business work from day one, right? I knew the content side, I need the marketing side, I can put together the website, I have resources to find the prospects, all that stuff, if like I all the boxes were checked, there was like really nothing new for me to do except for create stuff, which is what I like to do. And I probably spend too much time doing that. So that's what I did.

Philip Morgan
Now, you could just build a business around that. Anyway.

Liston Witherill
That's what I'm doing.

Philip Morgan
I know. I know. So what happened next? Did you ever get it to get off the ground?

Liston Witherill
So yeah, first campaign, hundred prospects. I think we had something like, six to eight sales meetings. And we did close a client. And then I didn't tell you this after I decided to pull the plug on the business. Someone else that we had talked to bought six months up front. And so that, that, you know, a lot more money came in, but I refunded the money, obviously. Okay. But yeah, and you know, one of the key things that I do want to point out is, from the beginning, I didn't offer this to anybody that I knew I didn't use my network at all, it was 100% cold, because I wanted to see if I could get the acquisition part down, because going to your friends doesn't tell you anything about being able to scale of business. And so I just never did that, for that reason. And so yeah, you know, overall, I would say, in terms of Can I market and sell the business? The answer was, yes, the products were saleable. It has some problems, potential problems with delivery, which I don't think we're gonna have time to get into that. I think I didn't fully respect coming into it. Sure. But yeah, I mean, I would say that overall, the experiment worked, right. But my main finding was, this is just going to take too much of my time and serve don't sell is too valuable to neglect and I wasn't, I was neglecting serve, don't sell which, at this point is a mistake.

Philip Morgan
Yeah, let's circle. Let's come back to that a minute. There's a really interesting point in there. I think about the fact that we, we all tend to start with our network. Like when we become self employed. Our network feeds us all this opportunity. Like they're celebrating that we I mean, I'm curious if you actually had this happen. It happened to me. You know, you decide you're gonna be self employed your networks like, Yay, Philip is self employed, and they, they've sort of proactively do your marketing for you. Right? And you know, then if you just continue to delegate that function to your network, then Your network Surprise, surprise gets tired of doing it, or just stops doing it or forgets about you or gets tired of the asymmetric deal or whatever. And so that doesn't last. Anyway, did you? Did you experience that when you first started working for yourself?

Liston Witherill
Um, I'd say I've taken the opposite approach to a fault. Like I should have done more like letting my network know, this is what I do. I've done some of that, but I've never really gotten, I haven't pursued it much. And again, this I think this is a shortcoming. This isn't a point of me bragging This is like it admission of a fault, which is, I probably could have gotten more business through my network, and I just neglected it. So

Philip Morgan
you know, I mean, the other thing you got to skip miss out on then, by doing that is the crisis that happens after the network stops producing so much opportunity. Right? You get to skip that. And that's a really stressful thing. So I don't know if there's anything to say he did wrong. That's interesting. I don't think I've talked to anyone who's done it right. And you know, quote, unquote, done it right from the start. So basically, from the very beginning, you took ownership for finding the opportunity for your business. You didn't delegate that, you know,

Liston Witherill
I did. And when I started, I did have a lead source, like a well established lead source, which was like, I guess, essentially, you could call it a referral channel, which helped a lot, right. I mean, I had, it was like a business in a box. For me, I had just lead show up in my inbox, who weren't pinging me. They were pinging an expert like me. Yeah, they were shopping around a little bit, but I had that already.

Philip Morgan
Yeah. Well, you invested though, in making that happen? I did. Yeah. I know, some of the backstory there. I know you. I know that that didn't just happen to you. You weren't born into that you invested in making it happen. True. Yep. Interesting. So delivery was not so easy. On the service was called I don't think we've mentioned the name of it.

Liston Witherill
It's called polycast. So you can still go to the website, polycast.fm. If you want to see what the so a couple points I want to make here. Because I think the goal of the show, tell me if I'm wrong. But the goal of this show is to sort of say like, what went well, like what were the lessons learned? What did I prove? And maybe what didn't go so well, which is essentially like I say yes to too many things, I think is how I would summarize that. But one of the things that was clear is like, as I said, when I started it, I had a clear customer in mind, and a clear value proposition. What do they want? And what can I give to them? And what are they struggling with? And how can I help solve that problem. And there was complete alignment from customer problem, solution, offer pricing, everything was completely aligned from the start. And so when we got it together, it was like, I chose the prospecting strategy. I wrote an email campaign that would reach out to people automatically until they replied or booked a meeting. I had a website landing page with pricing on it and a pre sort of package service. And then I had a sales deck, which I did pay someone to make look nicer, right. So when I showed up the first time, it was like, a good looking like professional sales deck. And I was conscious of that, because the credibility was lacking. I couldn't say, these five clients are, you know, worked with polycast. And they got the following results. All I could say is I'm listing and I've done this for myself, and I'm awesome. And so you should buy from me. Yeah. And so that was my credibility marker. I mean, obviously, also, like, I also run the offline podcast in modern sales. And here's my experience as a broadcaster. And I get all these pitches every day. And here's what's bad about those and how we're different. And so I was able to do all of that. But like, it was interesting, because to go from absolutely cold. And then thinking about sort of forced to think about, like, what are those things that are absolutely necessary. And it was really all it is, again, landing page outreach, prospect list, and then sales deck. And I think the sales deck is really important. Because when people show up, just feel so much more organized. To them, they get the feeling of like, they know what they're doing, right, where I'm like, step by step with formulas and frameworks. There we go again, right, it's a step by step. It's like we're gonna cook this recipe for you. And so if you want us to cook the recipe for you every month, here's what it's going to take. Even down to at the end of that sales pitch. I would you know, always ask what questions do you have and you know, Several people were like, the only question I have is when should I get started? Is it like now or in a month? And we kind of talked through that. But then I'm walk them through the exact steps of buying. And I'm doing this with my online course now, like that's going to go on the sales page, like, here's what it's going to look like to buy this. Yeah. Right. And really just taking all mystery and questions out of it. And that actually served really, really, really well, for this

Philip Morgan
project. Feel free to say no, but can we link to this sales deck in the show notes? Because it seems like a really something like something maybe not a lot of folks have seen?

Liston Witherill
Yeah, totally. Sure. Yeah. We can link to it. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. But yeah, we can do that.

Philip Morgan
I think that'd be really informative for a few listeners who've never seen something like that. See the example? And having in here, you talk about it?

Liston Witherill
Yeah. So yeah, that was I think that was one of my big learnings is like, you and I, we work with experts, right? Like, that's kind of our core focus. And I think one of the challenges that experts have is they go, I'm graded a thing, and they're trying to backfill, who should I offer the thing to? And why, like, what are they going to get out of it? And what is the absolute value to them, not to say, me, or you or our clients have no understanding of the value proposition. But the difference in polycast was I started by saying, it's going to be for these people, it's going to be for this reason, because I already intimately understand what their challenges are. And it's going to be this exact solution. And if they want, you know, if they want fish at Chipotle, I tell them, we don't serve fish, we serve beef or chicken or tofu. So if you want fish, you can't shop here, right? This is not the place for you. And like that was the whole idea going in is like, there are strict boundaries. And if people don't want that, they're not our customer period, I'm not going to try to convince them otherwise. And so that was like one of the strong. One of the things that really stood out to me is like, it was just so easy for them to buy it.

Philip Morgan
Mm hmm. Yeah, it's amazing when you're able to do that strategy thinking for with a clean sheet of paper. Exactly. Without pesky existing infrastructure to change sunk costs to deal with, you know, all that stuff. It's, it's so opposite the situation, we normally find ourselves in exactly

Liston Witherill
where it's like, I have this thing I want to sell Now, how do I sell it? Yeah. And that's, this was like, kind of the, the opposite of that. It's like, start to finish. Let's just create alignment. So yeah, Any questions about that?

Philip Morgan
You know, it strikes me a little bit like, I mean, I think we'll get to this, but it's different than an existing company, building a new product for an existing customer. But it's a little bit like that, where you're like, you know, we've got got a platform we can build on. So let's think about what this customer needs and build a new product. for them. We already understand the customer. You know, it's like adding a sort of new line of service or something, to serve an existing customer. Yeah, that's fascinating. So what what went not so well?

Liston Witherill
Um, I don't think there was anything that didn't go well, it was just that, like, a couple weeks in, I realized, you know, I want to relaunch I have the sales sprint as a workshop. I'm turning that into a course. By the way, if you're interested in that, go to my website, there's a webinar coming up about it. What's its serve, don't sell calm. Thank you. Glad you asked Philip. I want to, you know, my plan has been to relaunch the workshop now that I forget the exact number 17 or 20, people have gone through it. I know a lot about what worked, what didn't work, and really know how to make this more of a self service or a less, less done with you, there will still be office hours, and there will still be some support, but it won't be as much hand holding. And I knew like, that's a big opportunity for me, I'm running client con, probably will do a recap of that at some point. But, you know, back of the napkin, or sort of like the bottom line notes on client con, not as successful as I wanted it to be, but more than doubled my email list. Right. So now the group of people I can sell this course to has grown by two x. And I really need to get this done, and I need to sell it. I want it to be more effective than the last time I did it. And that's a lot of work. And I think it just became unclear to me pretty. Like within three, three weeks or four weeks of trying this out, I was just like, I can't do both things. And of course, I was running client con at the same time. But in general, I think I've tended to do too much. And I just felt like, the big, the big opportunity for me right now is serve, don't sell. I've invested a lot in that. And it's like, right at the verge of really paying off. Yeah, it's been great so far. But I mean, it's starting to feel like something that can scale a little bit more. And I just didn't have the time or bandwidth to invest in it as much as I need to. And so that, ultimately, that is why I pulled the plug.

Philip Morgan
Yeah, I refer to that as a head start, like you had this Head Start called surge, don't sell with ups. In one sense, you know, a decade of work as a self employed person. And in another sense, representative, you know, a few focused years working just on that thing. It's, it's the outcome of both of those, but it's this big headstart.

Liston Witherill
It's quite it's five years of self employment and coming up on three years of dedication to a coaching. Sales related coaching business.

Philip Morgan
Yeah. Yeah, that is a significant Head Start. Yeah. And it's not like you were walking away from it. But was there at some point where you felt like, Oh, I mean, you use you did use the word neglecting where you felt I'm liking this that is dangerous, or what did it feel like? Like, I'm sabotaging myself, but what was the story you told yourself about that neglect?

Liston Witherill
Um, I mean, I think it really came down to opportunity cost, like I wasn't judged. It wasn't like judgment of like, sabotage, it was more like, Okay. You know, it's, it's good to regularly just take stock of like, what am I doing? Why am I doing it? Yeah. Am I doing the right things? And I think it was really clear to me that the attraction of polycast is I could build a system that other people could go run. But what I realized after a month, is it's going to take 12 to 24 months to do that. Yeah. Really well, right. Because there's a lot of jobs to do even as simple. Even if the whole business was, you know, we'll get you as a guest on the shows, will produce your shows. And we'll create subsequent content related to your podcast, something like that, which, which is relatively simple. So a lot of jobs to do. And I just realized, like, I, this is not the opportunity for me right now. The timing was terrible.

Unknown Speaker
I have recently it was my fault,

Liston Witherill
it was totally my fault.

Philip Morgan
I recently threw a the draft for the position manual, which was about 60,000 words, and started over from scratch. I mean, the stage of things where that feels like the best decision ever. I know the stage of things where that feels like the worst decision ever, which is still coming down this down the road a bit. But it's got me thinking about like, why do I so badly sometimes? Yes. Why am I so bad at estimating what it takes to get something done? Sounds like there was a maybe not as bad but a little bit of that with polycast. Where there was things that needed to happen that were not apparent at the outset. Why do you think we do that? Why do we miss, estimate things like that?

Liston Witherill
Huh? Boy, that's like a trillion dollar question, isn't it? That's a good question. I think we're bad at predicting the future. I think, personally, the idea of shortcuts is probably more attractive than I care to admit. But it's true. Right? Like, I mean, who would want to go the long way if you could avoid it? Right. And I think that's part of it is like I just, I probably just minimized what needed to be done. Yeah. I don't know, man. I don't know. But I think as to go back to your question of like, when did I realize or how did it feel? I just saw a growing To Do List of SDS related things serve don't sell related things, including, like, SEO, which is starting to like really move for me, including my podcast. I think I've published two podcast episodes in the last two months. Which, prior to that I was on a weekly streak, for probably like 60 out of, or 58 out of 60 weeks, something like that. So I just obvious signs of like, stuff that I say is important. I'm not doing and I just clearly don't have the time for this.

Philip Morgan
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I have that to where I overburdened my to do list and add an experience recently of saying, writing down what are the things that need to happen every day to get like the most important things done. And it was working these talks, these two Ei talks I'm doing on Fridays, work on the book, and send, you know, send a daily email, three things and everything else is scheduled. It's not like those are the only three things I do. I do other things, but they're all like on the calendar. So I don't have to think about doing them. They just, you know, they they happen. And I caught myself saying there should be more than three things on that list. And that's a disease that comes from how my business was born, which is in under conditions of scarcity. So it's interesting to have that realization about why I overload myself. And there's also other elements, I'm just used to being busy and driven and so forth. So it kind of natural, but I am curious if you reflected on that. Why didn't Why did you take on more than you should have?

Liston Witherill
Well, and I think part of it. Yeah, as I'm glad you said that. I don't know if it's scarcity, for me so much is like, I really enjoy learning and doing new things. And I get bored with doing the same thing over and over again. And that's been not a great feature for building a long term thing. Sure, right. where, you know, again, the podcast is better if I publish every week,

Philip Morgan
right? Or

Liston Witherill
SEO goes better if I'm doing some level of SEO maintenance, even if it's not new content every week or every month at a minimum, but probably more like at least weekly, as I sit down for four to eight hours and do that. So yeah, I think part of it is just like, I'm attracted to change and novelty. And that's always been, I just like crave learning and doing new things, right, like having those experiences, which is one of the things that attracted me to consulting. I don't he said in the beginning. I can. I'm basically people are paying me to get an MBA, I get to see how their business works. I get to ask them how much money they're making. I get to ask them how specifically they did all of that. And it's not some stodgy case study that's, like difficult to repeat. It's like actual people that I'm working with. And in this case with polycast, I got to try it out. Right. I was like, you know, something from nothing. Can I do it? And that's attractive.

Philip Morgan
Yeah, as I have mentioned, client con is every Tuesday that has been going on and starting before. Yeah. Like, normally, I could just kind of ignore something like that. Uh huh. But I've tried to mention it like weekly for outs five or six weeks. And so each time I'm writing it like that, I'm like, holy shit, this thing is still going on. And I realized how much work it must have been, like, maybe it was less work or different work than like, they'll say it was a three day event instead of a 30 day event, right? Yeah, it would have been a really intense run up to those three days. And then those three days would have been super intense. But then it would be over kind of I mean, there'd be follow up stuff, but like, the main part would be over. And the main part has been, like a long month long, more than four weeks. So it's

Liston Witherill
really never go like this again,

Philip Morgan
it's really struck me What a workload you added, by doing. I'm impressed and also a little bit terrified of the idea of doing something like that.

Liston Witherill
Well, we should record an episode on client con, because it's there's a lot to say about it. But yeah, it is a lot of work. And again, like I underestimated how much time I'd be spending. And, you know, I think the long term SEO benefits are going to be huge. I think the relationships that come from that are huge. The exposure I get to people in this pretty intimate setting is huge. So yeah, I think all of those things are good, right? But, you know, essentially I tried to launch polycast alongside doing client con alongside the whole point of client Con was. Initially, I was like, obviously all of the gift to the audience relationships. But let's be honest, I wanted to grow my email list. Yeah. And I want to offer my course to those people, right people who I think I genuinely can help. And I was just like, Man, I'm losing the thread here. Like I really need to focus on that.

Philip Morgan
Well, not to mention, there's this, you know, viral pandemic raging out of control in this country in a stressful political event coming up. So, I mean, no matter where you're coming from, I think it's stressful for a lot of folks. So like going on some of that stuff I just brought up to remind you a lot of shit going on my friend. I'm impressed. Dean, thank you for sharing your learnings about polycast.

Liston Witherill
Yeah, you are quite quite quite welcome.

Philip Morgan
Talk to you next time.

Philip Morgan